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Alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer.creative is where I posted my first fic. I still post most of my stuff there, though feedback is sparse and generally one line encouragement (which I still love getting because I'm a feedback whore). It's full of nice people who post some good fics and it's friendly.
Which is why I answered a post from Jake, entitled, "Is it character bashing?" when I should have backed away slowly.
Is what? Slash fic, of course, silly! You can follow the thread on Google or the group but here are a few choice snippets from his posts before I gave up replying.
As a het male, it shouldn't surprise anyone that I have no use
whatsoever for m/m fics, no matter how interesting the nonsexual plot
(assuming there is one). It may surprise you that I have no use for
most f/f either. Sure, I accept W/T as canon; they were a cute couple.
But I can't stand W/K, mainly because I can't stand Kennedy (kill her,
already!) And I really have no desire for B/F, Ay/W or whatever other
unconventional femslash a fic writer wants to dream up.
After thinking about why I can accept W/T but not, say, W/Ay, it
occurred to me that most slash fics are just a form of character
bashing. Deliberately changing the sexual orientation of a character
for gratuitous sex is no different than any other OOC fic for the
purpose of exploiting them in an unrealistic setting. I may be alone in
feeling this way but I don't think so. Comments?
I gave him some, as did other people (one who is, to the best of my knowledge a het man, who gently pointed out that Kirk/Spock gives slash more than a little historical clout in the world of fanfic. He replied,
The only way fanfiction could have developed from slash was if slash
came before all other categories of fic. I find that very hard to
believe. Quite possibly Mary Sue came first but slash's long history
doesn't make it the progenitor of modern fanfic.
I asked him what he was basing all this on if he'd never read any slash. He replied:
Common sense? I know the definition of slash; there's not much room
for misinterpretation, is there? If you take heterosexual characters
created by somebody else (e.g., Joss) and place them in consensual
homosexual situations, you've completely changed the characters from
what both the creators and most fen have come to enjoy. My contention
is that most slash should be labeled AU. At least then there's no
pretense this has anything to do with the actual series.
I said,
>I could go through and quote you chapter and verse of
>> actual dialogue that hints at Xander being attracted to men and there
>> are dozens of moments where glances and body language confirm that.
>> Wes/Angel; from day one of AtS Wes has been attracted to Angel;
>> conflicted, rejected, complicated love that's incredibly interesting to
>> explore in various ways.
He condescendingly answered (and here I began to grind my teeth)
Somebody's reaching here. A lot. People see what they want to see,
often even if there's nothing there to see. I doubt you'll find many
nonslash fen who share your interpretation of Wesley.
The bit that had me gasping with disbelief that turned to giggles was this;
You obviously don't know heterosexual males as well as you think you
do. The vast majority of us would choose the celibate life of a hermit
over any homosexual relationship.
I pointed out that men and boys in boarding schools, prisons and ships might beg to differ. No, I'm not saying every het man would go for any port in a storm, so to speak, but to speak for the 'vast majority' of het men like that and to tell me that if I see sub text I'm inventing it...grr. He also tosses the word 'perversion' around a bit too much for my liking.
Finally, when asked why he thought he could comment if he hadn't read it he said,
I don't have to taste test poison to know it's a bad idea. This notion
that you don't know it until you've tried it is silly. For example,
most students immediately recognize a bad teacher regardless of having
no teaching experience themselves. They may not be able to be good
teachers themselves but they know when bad instruction is being
inflicted upon them, because they're the recipients. TV series live or
die on the opinions of people who have never themselves produced,
directed or acted in a TV series. That is as expected. The idea that I
have to read slash to "appreciate" taking a character and completing
perverting their sexual orientation is nonsense.
Which is why I answered a post from Jake, entitled, "Is it character bashing?" when I should have backed away slowly.
Is what? Slash fic, of course, silly! You can follow the thread on Google or the group but here are a few choice snippets from his posts before I gave up replying.
As a het male, it shouldn't surprise anyone that I have no use
whatsoever for m/m fics, no matter how interesting the nonsexual plot
(assuming there is one). It may surprise you that I have no use for
most f/f either. Sure, I accept W/T as canon; they were a cute couple.
But I can't stand W/K, mainly because I can't stand Kennedy (kill her,
already!) And I really have no desire for B/F, Ay/W or whatever other
unconventional femslash a fic writer wants to dream up.
After thinking about why I can accept W/T but not, say, W/Ay, it
occurred to me that most slash fics are just a form of character
bashing. Deliberately changing the sexual orientation of a character
for gratuitous sex is no different than any other OOC fic for the
purpose of exploiting them in an unrealistic setting. I may be alone in
feeling this way but I don't think so. Comments?
I gave him some, as did other people (one who is, to the best of my knowledge a het man, who gently pointed out that Kirk/Spock gives slash more than a little historical clout in the world of fanfic. He replied,
The only way fanfiction could have developed from slash was if slash
came before all other categories of fic. I find that very hard to
believe. Quite possibly Mary Sue came first but slash's long history
doesn't make it the progenitor of modern fanfic.
I asked him what he was basing all this on if he'd never read any slash. He replied:
Common sense? I know the definition of slash; there's not much room
for misinterpretation, is there? If you take heterosexual characters
created by somebody else (e.g., Joss) and place them in consensual
homosexual situations, you've completely changed the characters from
what both the creators and most fen have come to enjoy. My contention
is that most slash should be labeled AU. At least then there's no
pretense this has anything to do with the actual series.
I said,
>I could go through and quote you chapter and verse of
>> actual dialogue that hints at Xander being attracted to men and there
>> are dozens of moments where glances and body language confirm that.
>> Wes/Angel; from day one of AtS Wes has been attracted to Angel;
>> conflicted, rejected, complicated love that's incredibly interesting to
>> explore in various ways.
He condescendingly answered (and here I began to grind my teeth)
Somebody's reaching here. A lot. People see what they want to see,
often even if there's nothing there to see. I doubt you'll find many
nonslash fen who share your interpretation of Wesley.
The bit that had me gasping with disbelief that turned to giggles was this;
You obviously don't know heterosexual males as well as you think you
do. The vast majority of us would choose the celibate life of a hermit
over any homosexual relationship.
I pointed out that men and boys in boarding schools, prisons and ships might beg to differ. No, I'm not saying every het man would go for any port in a storm, so to speak, but to speak for the 'vast majority' of het men like that and to tell me that if I see sub text I'm inventing it...grr. He also tosses the word 'perversion' around a bit too much for my liking.
Finally, when asked why he thought he could comment if he hadn't read it he said,
I don't have to taste test poison to know it's a bad idea. This notion
that you don't know it until you've tried it is silly. For example,
most students immediately recognize a bad teacher regardless of having
no teaching experience themselves. They may not be able to be good
teachers themselves but they know when bad instruction is being
inflicted upon them, because they're the recipients. TV series live or
die on the opinions of people who have never themselves produced,
directed or acted in a TV series. That is as expected. The idea that I
have to read slash to "appreciate" taking a character and completing
perverting their sexual orientation is nonsense.